#avoid toxic fandom spaces

[glxyqst]

Moderators and server owners are people, too. Sometimes they have bad days. Sometimes they make mistakes.

And sometimes? Sometimes they are emotionally manipulative, toxic, cliquish assholes who use their self-appointed authority to treat other people like trash.

Y'all, NO space, fandom or otherwise, event-centric or not, is worth your mental and emotional well-being. Mods have a duty to lead by example, to treat others respectfully and kindly... whether in public or in DMs.

People are people. And sometimes, people are shit.

Take care of yourself.

Be kind to yourself.

Even if it hurts to leave, in the long run, you'll feel better for it.

[bringslife]

so tired of seeing ppl (non rp fandom) complaining about the doctor crying whenever he’s in an emotionally traumatizing situation.

[hussyknee]

People thinking they can poke holes in the quality of the media I hyperfixate on puzzle me. Dude, I know it's trash. I know it's mediocre-to-actively bad. I know it has the nutritional value of Fruit Loops. That's why I hyperfixate on it. If it was actually good it wouldn't produce the kind of under-the-skin irritation only scratchable by 738274 fics, fanedits and meta. I'm not gonna apologize for it.

Of course people who hyperfixate on this trash thinking it's good is a whole other class of animal. That probably belongs in a zoo.

[shelleysmary]

lots of fans have made valid points and written well-thought-out posts about the trop ai drama, so i'm not gonna rehash them, but i do want to bring up something that no one seems to be talking about and it's the impulse that leads people to plug these things into ai generators in the first place.

fandom over the last year especially has become increasingly toxic to the point that actual billion-dollar corporations are afraid it. the result is subpar, pandering films, books, and television shows that break no new ground, recycle old tropes, and sacrifice story integrity to avoid catching heat from the loudest, most entitled people in the room. i'm calling this an issue of entitlement first and foremost because the idea that the audience should have any say over a non-crowd-created media project is preposterous. deciding that the cons outweigh the pros of watching something and choosing to walk away without making a fuss is a lost discipline now because everyone with an internet connection and a social media account believes that their vision reigns supreme. "how dare this show downplay my favorite ship! they were supposed to kiss! that was the whole point! the absence of this one thing i had on my wishlist is a crime against me personally!" so they turn to ai and click some buttons and now these gifs exist and are being circulated with an air of "i've righted a wrong." worse, the use of ai in this way is being conflated with the creation of fanworks???

there are reasons why i don't believe the ai saurondiel kiss is on the same raft as, say, making them kiss in a drawing or a published fanfic, but my main concern is with the spirit behind each. fanworks are made in homage to the source material, even the fix-it fics. there is an acknowledgment, a separation even, between the television show and the fanwork. this separation is necessary and i would say even integral to the nature of fan creation, while ai closes that gap until it no longer exists. the elimination of space between creator and audience also happens on social media, when disgruntled fans who have taken umbrage with a fictional character or creative decision directly harass the writers or the actors involved. more and more, fans are demanding to be in the rooms, in the minds, and to exert control over the people who tell their stories, and it has only ever worked to our collective detriment. now i'm not saying that if you liked and shared the saurondiel ai kiss that you're the same as the internet trolls who harass (mostly) women and people of color online. but i'm begging you to do some self-reflection and ask yourself why you feel entitled to seeing what you want on your screen.

what has changed in the last few years that would make you dissatisfied with, say, reading someone's fic or making your own drawing? is it a matter of "the tool is there, so why not use it?" is it "i believe it should have happened and it didn't and i feel cheated?" or maybe there's been a pattern you've noticed in your recent media "consumption" (god, i hate that word) where, unless a show or television series goes the exact way you want it to, it feels like you've been defrauded somehow? i'm not being facetious. i'm inviting you to notice that what you're feeling is probably discomfort, disappointment, maybe even cognitive dissonance because you imagined it going one way, and now you're at a loss because it didn't. you built it up in your head, you had something to look forward to, you were convinced that it would happen, it was exciting and you were so eager to get to that point, and then.... and then...

we've all been there. and it sucks. but i also want to remind you of how important it is to preserve the separation. this space is ours. the writer's room, the filming set, the editing room, those spaces are theirs. the actors' likenesses are theirs. thinking beyond trop, the separation is how we get creative works that challenge us politically, emotionally, that make us uncomfortable and tell us important truths. writers shouldn't have to - and shouldn't FULL STOP - do what we want them to do. sometimes that means knowing when to walk away, when to say "i no longer enjoy this show, i will no longer support it" or "i will continue to watch but pretend things went differently," the latter of which has been the spark that has moved so many online fans to draw, paint, write, or sew. it's a type of creation that allows "canon" and "fanon" to exist parallel to one another. moreover, the effort it takes to make anything with your own two hands, with your own time, and with your own energy increases your appreciation for the creative impulse. films and books and television stop being "products" for your "consumption" because you're aware of what goes into them, and it becomes easier to look at things you don't like or disagree with and say, "you know what, i'm gonna pass," or "not in my headcanon."

oh, and by the way plugging things into an ai generator? is theft. the same way that it's generally frowned upon for people to use ai to, say, write the rest of an unfinished fic without the express permission of the fanwork creator, using the actors' likenesses to make them kiss goes against everything the actors' union fought for last year. i'll also add that it's incredibly creepy. almost all of us are in agreement that intimacy coordinators are a good thing because they act - again! - as a separation between what's "real" and what isn't, the same way going on ao3 and reading a fic that very clearly says on the tin that it's a fanfic, unaffiliated with the official ip, is a separation. it's another beast entirely to normalize fan-use of ai, to say you support creatives, support actors, support unions, and then do this in your personal life. i repeat the question: what impulse leads anyone to believe that this is okay other than a feeling of misplaced ownership?

tl;dr: ai nonsense does not belong in fandom spaces. (in my home state of california, it is illegal to use digital replicas of an actor's voice or likeness in place of their actual services without their informed consent [which, in spirit, is what you're doing by using ai to make your gifs]). we all just need to mind our own business and go back to writing our fix-it fics and complaining to our friends in relative peace. if you're finding it impossible to do so, ask yourself why. remember that fanart is our longstanding tradition. stop outsourcing it to an unregulated technology just because your two faves didn't kiss.

[pan-withnoplan]

@lakewillowmerewraith let me tell you something about boundaries.

I run a confession blog for a different fandom. It's mostly a positive environment, but as with most fandoms, there are also ship wars, people who thirst for "negative" characters, and occasionally rotten takes. Since the first day, I knew I had to set boundaries, but I also knew that I couldn't let those boundaries be about me and my personal preferences and dislikes. It wouldn't be fair if I deleted positive confessions about my notp/criticising my ships/depicting nsfw headcanons/shipping a beloved character with a hated character.

Because that was a blog that I made, but I made it for everybody in my fandom to feel welcome, not just those who I believed shipped/held the "correct, pure, unproblematic" ships/opinion, and it isn't fair to police real people because of fictional characters. What confessions I could reject, were those who actively hated on real people. For example: “This female character whom some people see as a transfem allegory canonically had a brief relationship with a black woman, so people who ship her with this white male character who was mean to her and "deadnamed" her are all racist, homophobic, and abuse apologists”. And “All X shippers are racist/misogynist/homohobic/etc etc” and “people who say [perfectly harmless thing] are gross/cringe. touch grass” and “stop being so damn [ableist slur]”. Those are the things I need to protect and shield my followers from, not the thirst confessions about the villain who manipulated and betrayed the female character. I also have an extensive tag system that allows people to avoid things they don't want to see. I get inbox that I don't like every day and still, as long as they aren't harmful to real people, I publish them all because it's not about what I want from my blog, it's about enriching my fandom and giving a voice to everybody. I've fucked up occasionally, but I am proud to say that mostly I have been praised for keeping a welcoming, safe, and positive space.

This is what I mean when I say that @elainarcheronweek's mods that have pushed for the decision to have certain Elain ships banned are partial, biased, and unfit to run an event that's supposed to belong to all Elain fans, not just the mods, not just the ones who they believe ship her with the correct character. It's not Healthy Elain Week, it's just Elain Week. And it's despicable that they can just decide to reject fanworks on which real people spent time and energy and feelings, just because they don't like the pairing or they make them feel icky. Because it's just that, right? You said it yourself. Not "fans feel uncomfortable about tamlain and beronlain", it's "the mods have the right to lead their event how they want to". And I say no, it's not only their event, it's Elain's event, Elain's fans's event, and no, they don't have the right to lead that event how they want to if that means punishing fans and creators because of a personal dislike. As I said, they didn't like the "icky" ships and decided to make it everyone else's problem. They "eliminated" the threat of big bad "toxic" elain ships, but they've done nothing to silence the people who accuse tamlain and beronlain shippers of being abuse apologists even when those works contain Tamlin and/or Beron redemption. This is not letting darkfic have the right to exist, it's purity culture. Denying those works a place on the platform out of a personal preference is quite literally censorship.

"But fans really have been feeling uncomfortable with tamlain and beronlain! What about them?" So use the fucking tag system. Make a post where you explain there will be works thay might trigger people and tell them to block the tamlain and beronlain tags. Ask people to suggest other potential triggers so you can update the list. Include the list of potential triggering tags in the master post. It's that simple and it would have saved the whole fandom a lot of drama and disappointment. It's always so baffling for me to think that grown ass people refuse to curate their own browsing experience or ignore the things that they dislike.

[karenandhenwilson]

I think I figured out, at least for myself, why the 9-1-1 fandom and part of the Buddie-or-Bust side of it feels so much more toxic than ever before when I know for a fact, those demanding Buddie has to become canon and who are looking for any tiny clue to be able to say it will become canon have always been this toxic. (I mean, with the exception of some people who came into the show because with Buck being bi the show was suddenly not queerbaiting anymore--lol, it hurts even just writing this as if it were really true--and then became die-hard Buddie fans or at least pretend to be to garner enough followers and clicks to make money out of fandom. But I'm not talking about them here.)

Before Bucktommy, there was no real opposition for them in the fandom. Buck and Eddie both had other LI and those had their fans (I know for a fact there are still people now shipping Buck with Taylor or Buck with Marisol or Eddie with Shannon). But those were very few fans and they created their own little spaces in fandom places and were barely noticeable. So the Buddie-or-Bust fans were able to mostly ignore them. And there have of course also been some small fanon ships for Eddie and Buck with other people, but those are barely noticed either.

But Bucktommy? That got huge in practically an instant. Because so many people were excited for bi story line with an established character and one in Buck's circumstances (not even Buck himself). And the Bucktommy fans were loud about their support of this new canon ship. So Buddie-or-Bust fans suddenly felt threatened and became much louder in their hate for anything not Buddie. Because now, for some reason, the fans of the other ship seem to be a threat to them. And also, for the first time for any of the LI of Eddie or Buck, they made an honest effort to set up Tommy and the relationship with him as something long-term. Which the Buddie-or-Bust fans recognize just as much as the Bucktommy fans, and so they try even harder to find fault in every single thing.

And that did change something in the behavior of the die-hard Buddie fans. At times, I've been neck-deep in Ana bashing, in Shannon bashing, in Taylor bashing, in Chimney bashing, in Abby bashing, in Maddie bashing. Because I enjoy a good bashing at times. It can be very cathartic. But you know what I've never seen there? I've never seen any of those characters being called derogatory names. Or their fans being called derogatory names and, in most cases, their fans didn't retaliate to the bashing either. (Though, at least for Chimney fans they sometimes very viciously go against people even just mentioning they don't like him and it came up a couple of times that Chimney fans found derogatory names for those bashing Chimney because that group of fans also seems to be unable to avoid content bashing their fav and instead sought it out deliberately to complaint about it.)

I can't even count anymore how many derogatory names I've seen for Tommy or Bucktommy or Bucktommy fans. They seem to come up with a new name every other day. And they enjoy trumping each other in their creations and using those names to get around the boundaries others try to set for themselves by filtering out the already known names.

And I already see people coming at me with "Oh, but Bucktommy fans started it by calling us BoBs." and just: No. Once more, you get an F in reading comprehension. It's always been made very clear that BoBs stood for Buddie-or-Bust and I personally don't see anything derogatory here but also, it's always been made very clear it's a specific subset of Buddie fans who behave poorly to separate them from the Buddie fans who don't care about Bucktommy. Because those people using that term are very well aware that there are really just a couple of very loud bad apples in the Buddie side of fandom and the rest of the Buddie fans don't deserve to be lumped in with them. While, on the other hand, all Bucktommy fans are always called names as a whole.

And I think their biggest problem is not even necessarily the "threat" they perceive Bucktommy to be to their own ship, though that's clearly a big part still. Otherwise, they wouldn't come after authors and artists and other fans who once shipped and created for Buddie and are now creating for Bucktommy. And otherwise, they wouldn't tag so many Buddie fics as Bucktommy, too, in some kind of strange hope to convince Bucktommy fans to ship Buddie again. (Without noticing that all they are accomplishing is to make everyone annoyed at them. And yes, that includes those Buddie fans who don't care for Bucktommy at all because they need to curate the Buddie tag very carefully now, too.)

I think their biggest problem is this belief that their ship is only valid if it's canon.

Which is so strange. Fandom has always mostly been about ships that are very much not canon. And no one ever expected their ships to become canon in the past, as far as I know. (Except if it was promoted and then didn't happen. Looking at Sterek here.) Canon ships barely get any attention. I mean, look at all the 9-1-1 ships that are canon, including Tarlos, and how little content there is for any of them, and also how little engagement there is for this content compared to Buddie. That's always been a trend in fandom, that's not new with 9-1-1.

It's not only strange, I also think it's honestly sad for these fans. Because they have deliberately set themselves up to be disappointed and dig that hole of disappointment ever deeper. Even if Buddie should ever go canon, which I honestly don't think will happen, it won't be at all what they expect. And they'll either leave the fandom or turn on the ship they were so toxically addicted to before.

[elainsgirl]

you know, im actually tired of azriel's bonus chapter being talked 24/7 like its the most major thing ever. I never seen people get worked up on a bonus chapter that didnt even happen at the end of the book! acosf is the reason why this fandom is so toxic!

Hey anon 🫶

I definitely agree. Bonuses aren’t meant to be given such significance as Azriel’s bonus is given. At this point, His bonus seems to be more important then the foreshadowing in ACOSF it self.

“The shadows were ready to strike Nesta when she insulted Elain during their fight? Doesn’t matter because In Azriel’s bonus they disappear therefore that’s the only proof I need to claim that they absolutely despise and fear her 🥸”

Its a BONUS chapter, that too it was only part of a limited special edition. Let’s be realistic for a second - if someone hadn’t posted it online for everyone to see, those of us who hadn’t brought the SE, we would not know the contents of the bonus. If someone hadn’t kept up with SJM and JUST picked up acosf after reading acotar but is unaware of any bonuses, they too would not know about what occurred in Azriel’s bonus, why? Because its information that is not required to know. Its just an EXTRA. That confirms some suspicions in SF. I can go into detail to prove the irrelevancy of the bonus but ACOSF already tells you everything you need to know for the next book. I hadn’t read Azriel’s bonus until two years ago. Before reading it - elriel, much like Nessian, were blatantly obvious. After reading it? Elriel is still endgame. The reason the bonus is so talked about is due to the fact an entire ship relies on it. Gwynriel’s do not have anything in acosf to prove their ship, its just a bunch of out of context scenes and dialogues that aren’t in any way romantic or foreshadowing. Add in the bonus and GA have something to grasp onto even though it contradicts the book and well…the bonus itself lmfao. Then you have eluciens using the bonus as some concrete proof elriel is toxic and a future abusive relationship. That Azriel is an incel who only wants Elain superficially and Elain is just a little, clueless child who walks around lying to people about what she wants.

Antis CLUTCH onto the bonus as most of their arguments and claims use it as “proof” for whatever anti elriel bs they want to spread. But their points only make sense with the bonus, not without which tells you all you need to know about how valid their arguments are.

Feysands bonus is not talked about bcs it easily disproves gwynriel/elucien. Wings and Ember is only used as a way to show how “toxic” Cassian is otherwise its kept under wraps bcs once again, it disproves antis takes. If you had something that dismissed your entire ships within a couple of lines - ofc you’d avoid it like the plague. Its only Azriels bonus that can give them some hope that their worst nightmare won’t come true. That too, the hope is given after they twist and turn the scenes to fit their narratives.

It’s so important to understand elriels bonus sorry, Azriel’s bonus happens during acosf and not after. Its not the end of the book, after the bonus - there is no change or shift in the dynamic between Gwyn and Azriel. They remain as your usual mentor/mentoree duo. Even more important to remember is in regards to Gwynriel, nothing in the bonus is mentioned. Not their session, not the “spark”, not the necklace. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because it is irrelevant. Yet we get told about Azriel’s mood being off which relates to the elriel part of the bonus directly paralleling Cassian after his bonus w Nesta. Because THAT is relevant.

YEP. The fandom was toxic pre-acosf but it’s nothing compared to now. Unless you’re surrounding yourself with content you like and want to see - you can’t just enjoy general fandom spaces anymore.

Acosf brought up:

Anti Feysand agenda

Nesta vs inner circle

critique of the IC

Pro Tamlin apologists to the point of invalidating Feyre’s trauma

The infamous ship war

Anti Nessian vs pro Nesris

Readers opinion being pushed more then Authors intent.

I hope after Elains book - the fandom goes back to being semi-toxic again and more tolerable/enjoyable then it is now.

[larothoughts]

anti-ship adjacent ships: liujiu and qijiu

so there's this weird thing that's happening in svsss of all fandoms that reminds me a lot of voltron's klance and sheith fiasco AKA the formation of what i like to call anti-ship adjacent ships

basically, when someone's favorite ship is more indicative of them being an anti-shipper of another ship.

i've had to start excluding liujiu in my ao3 searches because more often than not, the fics that come up are yqy-bashing and what?? this is svsss, right? mxtx's trashiest, most problematic, harem-bicycle-shen-yuan svsss? what is this moral outrage doing in my degenerate danmei fic space, and why are you mischaracterizing yqy just to make an excuse to hate on him??

i've had a few thoughts on the rising dichotomy of shen jiu sympathizers both validating sj's bad behavior and hating yqy for enabling the same behavior. and then shipping him with lqg because liujiu is 'less toxic.' As an old lady fanfic reader who's trawled through all the godforsaken dead dove ships of the old livejournal kink_meme, i'm writing these out because making sense of things helps me cope and i am too old for this shit

(this is actually more 'why anti-qijiu' word vomit than liujiu specific--it just so happens that so many liujiu fics are bizarrely anti-qijiu.)

narrative reasons for anti-yqy liujiu fic:

aka why an author finds it easier for the plot to bash qi-ge

accepting either romantic or platonic qijiu means trying to fix qijiu. this is hard. yqy and sj already have a proven history of failure, while sj and lqg (aka author's ideal white-knight love interest) would be the perfect do-over. making yqy a clear abusive villain sj must cut off ties with 'for his mental health' solves the problem without having to fix things. it frees the author to write what they thought qi-ge should have done to 'save shen jiu right.'

on the same note, liujiu have nearly no canon crumbs. the author can write them however they want without being constrained by their canon relationship.

why lqg over other possible ships? other than yqy, lqg is one of the few characters with any sort of previous relationship with sj. lqg is canonically hot, has strong (even if negative) feelings towards sj, and has no textual or subtextual canon ship (beyond a one-sided crush on shen yuan, with lbh getting in his way lol.) he is also the same generation as sj and thus avoids any age gap squicks like with sj's other ship partners (looking at you tlj)

yqy is the only person in cang qiong with higher authority than shen jiu. while other peak lords are antagonistic, all are ranked lower and can't get in liujiu's way the same way as yqy can as a sect leader. not even the old palace master has the same power because he's the head of a different sect. so if you really want to write a villain abusing their (implicit) power over shen jiu, yqy is the only one that fits the bill.

lbh, as sj's disciple, does not fit the same abuse of power trope even if he becomes an op demon lord. as for bingjiu, lbh's brand of diabolical stalkerish yandere is so over-the-top it's hard to equate him to any real relationship. it's easier to twist yqy's passivity to villainy because it's closer to reasonable human behavior.

if one is coming from the tgcf fandom, yue qingyuan is the closest junwu-adjacent character in terms of personality and rank (on the surface.) so it's easy to transfer any junwu hate to yqy by giving him all of junwu's worst traits and making him 'junwu-lite'

same thing as above but with mdzs and the lan xichen hate for his inaction regarding his own little meowmeow (jgy).

personal author-reasons for anti-yqy liujiu fic:

aka when the character himself doesn't matter

let's get a silly one out of the way: maybe the author only headcanons top shen jiu and most qijiu has sj being a bottom. lqg gives off better hot twinky bottom energy than submissive-but-still-tops yqy. this does not explain the anti-shipping though.

less silly: an author is projecting either themselves or other people in their real life onto their fic, and changing the character's personalities to match their real life projected counterparts (even if ooc). sj is a clear abuse-survivor insert, which shoe-horns other characters into roles that real people in the author's lives have. i think yqy is often seen as the insert for someone who 'could have helped but didn't.' there are many valid reasons why someone would be more mad at the person who averted their gaze rather than their actual abuser, but that doesn't change the fact that qijiu's relationship in canon is so much more complicated.

(it's easier to hate enablers instead of abusers, because hating abusers and inviting confrontation is dangerous. most of the time, enablers won't hurt you directly. they are the safer person to hate.)

an author thinks they could have saved sj better, that qi-ge had more than enough time to fix things and his failure not to do so must be punished by taking away his sj-simp-card and throwing him into the villain bin. this is similar to the phenomenon where an author hates the wife of canon anime couples b/c the author could clearly wife him better. and then writes a fic bashing said wife.

an author sees a messy relationship and equates messy with abusive. in reality many relationships can be messy but not abusive, messy but still fixable, but due to their personal experiences they see any attempt to do so as toxic. in this scenario yqy is often the abuser-insert and his ooc characterization takes after the author's own abuser.

specifically in fics where lqg has the personality of a cardboard cut-out: using liujiu to tell others they are still pro-ship, when in reality they dislike qijiu for their own reasons (and can't help but write it in their fic). it really reminds me of middle school lol like kids trying to find their identity by hating another identity. the whole 'ew pink is overrated, i hate preps which means i must be a nerdy rebel' and then two years later you realize you're not a nerdy rebel after all, you just based your entire identity on what you thought was the opposite of what you hated.

why i try not to read anti-qijiu liujiu fics:

aka write whatever you want, but sometimes i have to choose not to read

authors can write whatever they want. we're all doing this for free, so it's expected that a lot of fanfic have venting and some self-imposing onto a fictional character. i don't expect authors to NOT put themselves in their fic in some way. at the same time, however, i hope authors are self-aware enough to not bash another character just because that character reminds them of someone irl.

aka i get uncomfortable when i read a fic that has an author's obvious real-person insert. i'm not reading svsss fic anymore, i'm reading the author's version of punishing their abuser using fiction. i love transformative media that adds onto the canon! i love different interpretations even! but i'm here to read svsss? where are the svsss characters??

i'm not into character-bashing in general. i think the point of svsss and all of bingqiu's misunderstandings is the fact that good/evil is not a binary. sy spent the whole series fearing the 'evil' binghe despite the fact that post-abyss binghe was a complex person, causing a chain reaction of disaster. hell, shen jiu is the king of gray characters! he is a scum villain, evil and misunderstood, to be a sj-fan means to understand that no one is entirely good or evil. so it's even more cognitively dissonant when a pro-sj fic is so categorically anti-qijiu, as this often paints sj as good/misunderstood and yqy as bad.

(the only character-bashing i don't care about is the old palace master mxtx clearly wrote him to be bashed so throw him in a fire)

i don't mind liujiu actually, i think the dynamic has potential (see all the sj harem fic i've read lol) but qi-ge is such a big part of sj's character that vilifying/getting rid of him does sj a disservice too? sj has a shit ton of bad coping mechanisms, these aren't going to be magically fixed if yqy gets his limbs chopped off as 'just punishment' (??) for not stopping sj from abusing his own students (????)

in conclusion

there is no point to this rambling, and you don't need to agree with me on anything. these are just thoughts i had when trying to figure out why anti-ship adjacent ships even exist. the moral outrage is giving me war flashbacks of anti-sheith klance fans using their age gap as justification for their own ship, rather than liking klance for... being klance.

(I briefly considered going over all liujiu vs qijiu morality arguments, but if you're an sj fan i feel like morality arguments are pointless. he is an angry feral scum kitten who hits kids, no sj-fan has the moral high ground here.)

it's always unfortunate to see so much anti-shipping spilling into fandom, since by default most of us are living in the fringe minority anyway. further dividing us is just going to sink the whole ocean ala the death of livejournal and chinese ban on ao3. there's no point in ships if there ain't an ocean to sail in! aren't we all here because we are fans of these stories???

bonus

to make up for what must feel like a huge anti liujiu wall of text, here are some of my general thoughts on how their relationship would work. i'm more familiar with sj so most of these are from his pov.

while sj often has schemes upon schemes upon schemes, when it comes to anger/criticism/negativity, he's scathingly honest. lqg, a fellow honest asshole, is often on the same wavelength. once misunderstandings are cleared up and lqg realizes sj will do whatever it takes to protect big bro yqy (and thus the sect), they're able to work together as a ruthless team against cang qiong's enemies.

let's also assume fixing sj's emotional issues stops him from the worst of his scumminess aka whipping his disciples half to death.

teamwork -> enemies to lovers -> only one bed trope???

sj needs someone who will overtly believe in his goodness, and lqg, once he realizes the mistakes in his assumptions, is a loyal wall of support. unlike qi-ge who must always play diplomat, lqg blazes over all social cues. who cares if this looks bad on cang qiong, he'll throw down with anyone if his boo is insulted.

lqg is upfront and honest. there are no hidden plots for sj to be paranoid about in lqg, he's a Good Man through-and-through. if lqg has problems, he'll tell him. if he needs to apologize and sj tells him why, he'll do so. and if sj asks him a question, he'll always do his best to answer.

while lqg knows sj has trauma and a dark past, he will never truly understand what it was like. and that's exactly what sj wants. he likes how lqg knows him more as he is now in the present vs. someone who has lived through the same past. being with him is a reminder that he is now a powerful peak lord, not the starving street rat he once was.

for lqg, sj is like a complex puzzle box. an enigma so outside of his understanding of how the world works, he can't help but be drawn to it. he used to equate scheming with evil, but once he realizes much of sj's scheming was for the good of the sect, he lets himself be impressed by sj's intelligence. the fact that sj became a peak lord from nothing shows a certain type of strength-- and lqg has always appreciated strength.

a big roadblock in their relationship was sj's antagonism towards yqy (their sect leader whom lqg respects.) once qijiu reconcile (or sj stops being so disrespectful to yqy in public) lqg is better able to see him as an ally vs. an enemy.

sj rewards this loyalty by taking care of lqg's hidden enemies, because straightforward brutes are especially susceptible to devious snakes like that. sj would know. whether or not he tells lqg can go either way. he tells lqg if only to stop lqg from hearing it elsewhere and assuming the worst; or he doesn't tell lqg because he knows lqg trusts him and confusing his mind with schemes would just make him grumpy for not understanding.

...even if he's cute when he's grumpy.

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #6206:

That moment when you go through the tag of your favorite character (for either canon/fanon reasons) is a decision you will come both to love and regret…

Like… the tag system is there for a friggin reason. If you hate the character/content, filter the tag(s), as it would save both you and others the trouble, and I won’t have the urge to bang my head against a wall because, tell me you are an anti without telling me. I also avoid most pros because they can be just as toxic as some antis.

In short, tag your posts properly and filter any specific tags you hate, because the last thing I and many others don’t want to see is anti anything in the tags we follow. It’s the equivalent of bringing hate in what’s supposed to be a safe space or a comforting place for others.

[sailforvalinor]

What people think Star Wars is:

Elaborate space battles with lasers

Dudes with laser swords

"Luke, I am your father"

Incomprehensible sci-fi jargon

Toxic fandom nonsense

What Star Wars actually is:

Watching a stand-offish, jaded man become a reluctant father-figure to a plucky, naïve kid and not caring a whit that you've watched this same plotline six times before

Having a specific piece of Star Wars media that you will defend to the death, flaws and all

Defining your personality by which cloned version of the same man is your favorite (and sometimes having to justify why)

Being really talented at singing the movie scores acapella

Crying

Living in constant fear of having to watch a rehash of a religion-wide genocide from a different angle

Pretending that certain aspects of the lore and story don't exist

Pretending that certain aspects of the lore and story that no longer exist DO exist

Being in mourning for five years straight over a blue haired kid who disappeared into space with giant space whales

More crying

Having a mentally prepared opinion on the existence of Gray Jedi for whenever someone might bring up the topic

Daydreaming designs for what your lightsaber would look like and what your Mandalorian armor would be

Strong opinions about preferred watching order

Avoiding toxic fandom nonsense

Wanting to fly to San Francisco to steal a certain man's cowboy hat

Did I mention crying

[acourtofthought]

Sarah telling us in an interview Elain and Lucien are happiest in nature. Writes in her book how they both come alive in nature. Sarah telling us in an interview that her husband is her biggest cheerleader. Writes into her book how Lucien (not Az) gives Elain credit for killing the king. Sarah telling us in an interview that she asks herself questions in regards to mating bonds, is there choice? Is it fate? Or is it both? Writes into her book that there is choice in bonds then has every single main character mated pair end up happy and in love together proving that it's both and gives an explanation for why some secondary characters were not well suited (because the male was cold and vicious - something we don't need to worry about with Lucien). Sarah telling us in an interview that her husband takes care of her, making sure she's fed. Writes Rhys, Cassian, Lucien, expressing concern over their mate not eating enough. Sarah telling us in an interview that she makes sure her FMC's end up with who they need to be with to offer them the most growth. Writes into SF Az trying to hold Elain back from achieving any sort of growth. Sarah telling us in an interview that there is someone special for Lucien down the road and that she did not put Nesta with Lucien as she once thought she might because they'd cause one another more harm. Reveals Elain as Lucien's mate in the series. Sarah telling us in an interview about the issues with toxic male masculinity in regards to how Tamlin treated Feyre. Writes Az going off about how Lucien isn't good enough, that if Graysen is killed good riddance, that he'd defeat Lucien with little effort and seems not at all concerned about risking the peace of their entire lands, that Elain is too pure and trusting for his dirty self and has him speak against her wishes to search for the Trove. Sarah telling us in interviews how Josh has stood by her side through her darkest times. Writes how Az ignored Elain for the first weeks of her depression, even drawing straws to avoid guarding her while Lucien fought across courts without his magic to make it to Elain's side. Once there he spent time in a place he knew he wasn't wanted, knew she was in love with someone else, all to help pull her out of her depression by demanding they get her outside and suggesting they have a healer look her over. Later writes Lucien giving Elain the space to return to Graysen, giving her the space not to have to make a decision about their bond because he believes it's what she wanted (just like Rhys once did for Feyre when it came to Tamlin) all while Az ignores Elain for an entire year because he can't stand that he didn't get a bond.

I'll take the author's words over a random journalist or those on the other side of the fandom any day.

Sarah is a MILLIONAIRE because of her fated mates stories yet some really want act like she doesn't know what she's doing? 😂 I think she and her bank would laugh if they could hear that.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for trying to block evade?

This happened several years ago, so I'll put the ages that we were at the time.

I [17F at the time], had an extremely close friend [17F] of 3+ years, and I still haven't found any kind of friendship that came close to the level of trust / openness that was there. So some of this backstory ranges from 14yrs to 17yrs.

My home was abusive, and she and her mom helped me figure out what was rational vs irrational, normal vs not normal, and pointing out local resources to get help - which was absolutely amazing and I could not thank them enough.

She invited me to her house pretty regularly, a couple times a week. We'd have hours of skype calls. She got me roped into Undertale & the fandom. Well, not that we really interacted with the fandom at large. We only publically posted some of the art and barely got noticed haha. Between the two of us, we had something like 26 AUs and had a lot of rp with multiverse shenanigans - like over 1200+ pages of google docs rp, because that's where we did like 90% of it. After we hit like 100-200 pages, we'd make a new doc so it wouldn't take so long to load. And we had like, at least like 9 docs I think. I was mostly in it for her, because it was really fun to just make up stories together. I could've done it with any fandom she threw at me, undertale is just the one that was popular at the time.

At one point, I think when we were around 16, I asked her if she wanted to start dating. She said something along the lines of maybe in the future, but not right now - she wanted to focus on school. Even though she declined at the time, she did say she appreciated me asking and that it meant a lot to her. And there were 0 hard feelings about the answer, we just kept on going the way we were going.

She got hit with a really bad level of depression, and stopped coming to school. After 2-3 days, I started calling her every day around lunch time just to check in on her and see how she was doing. See if there was anything I could do to help - bring some snacks, catch her up on classwork for the couple classes we shared, stuff like that. This was for couple months. More than just a mental health day, and the only reason she gave was Depression.

After a week or two of the daily calls, there was probably an aspect of toxic positivity on my end. Like "You gotta Do Something to avoid being trapped in your misery, even if it's just baby steps like sitting outside on the porch or going on a walk down the block" Not maliciously, but more out of not knowing how to handle a situation like this & genuinely wanting to help her because of all the help she's offered me in the past & fueled a little bit by fear because Depresssion is the excuse that my abusive parents used to justify their shitty behavior & neglect. Not because I was afraid of what she'd do to me, but more what she'd do to herself. That's one of the only things I could think where I went wrong, which I completely acknowledge and understand now.

She was still inviting me to her house, and we were still doing our normal thing there. Drawing and writing stories together.

After 4-5 weeks [? estimate, time is an illusion] of her not showing up to school, I can't remember if I asked if it was helpful or if she suggested that I stop calling every day. Calling every day was making her feel worse.

I did end up calling the next day or two at lunch - crossing the boundary was not my intent. We had planned to hang out on the weekend again, lunch is just when I remembered & had time to call to ask if she still wanted to hang out or if she wanted some space. I think she said yes to hanging out, didn't mention anything about crossing the boundary. Same with the next day - there was something I needed to ask clarification on, it wasn't a check in, nothing was mentioned of the boundary. I can't remember what it was now. This is another one of the places where I think I went wrong, which I acknowledge & understand.

I did stop the check ins like requested though. After those two off days, I did stop calling her every day at lunch.

She finished out the school year having shown up to class maybe 3ish times, I think.

Again, we were still hanging out regularly. There was no indication that I was doing anything wrong, there was no indication that anything I was doing was wrong. She was still the one inviting me to hang out at least half the time.

There were some problems that I was noticing that I just wanted to have a casual chat about and figure out, but she kept pushing it off as a "I don't have the energy right now, we can talk about it later" and we'd go back to the fun things. I don't really remember what those problems were.

In the summer, I went to a different state to visit my older sister that I hadn't seen in years. I talked to her about it, I was excited for it. We were still chatting regularly during my trip over skype or discord.

And then, during my trip that I was so excited about, she drops this bombshell. She sends me several massive messages detailing out a bullet point list of everything I've done wrong, that she's explicitly breaking off the friendship, and blocks me. 95% of things on that list either flat weren't true, or gross misunderstandings of what happened.

It was genuinely horrible things too.

For example, one of the things on the list was "Suicide baiting" or "Suicide guilt tripping" or something along those lines, which had happened several months if not a year before this. -I've only ever communicated feeling acutely suicidal to her 1 time. -Long before that, she made me promise that if I ever felt suicidal that I was supposed to immediately talk to her about it, for her own peace of mind so she wouldn't worry about me. -I reached a point of feeling acutely suicidal due to abuse at home & general existential dread, that happened to be during a time we had an issue.

I purposefully waited until after the issue was resolved, like 2 weeks, before telling her. I did that specifically so it would not be taken as a guilt trip or a form of coercion while still holding as true as I could to my promise. She made me promise to tell her, it was something very important to her. I made very clear to say "this is something I experienced a couple weeks ago due to unrelated things, it is resolved now, I got help through xyz means and genuinely feel better. You made me promise to tell you so I am telling you, I didn't want to say anything while we were having a problem for xyz reason." I just wanted to talk, and clear up the misunderstandings. I wanted to have a good conversation about figuring out where the communication went wrong, try and figure out how she came to these conclusions, and how that differs from my point of view. Do something to work it out, and just talk about it, and try and salvage this 3+ year friendship.

After I realized I was blocked, I was going through so so many emotions all at once. The whiplash of going from 5 to 100, Upset that I wasn't given any sort of chance to explain, the 5 stages of grief, being thrown away like the gum off your shoe, worrying about her and if this was the stage of isolation for depression, holding out the hope that we could still just talk and work things out, angry that she kept pushing off and refusing to have any sort of serious talk before this, doubting if anything she had said on 'normal vs not normal' - particularly communication styles, thoughts that maybe she was abusive and manipulative all along, maybe I was continuing the cycle of abuse, trauma flashbacks, anxieties that I had since squashed as 'irrational', fear that this was a sign that she was about to fucking kill herself and maybe the whole list was a lie so I wouldn't try and reach out and stop her, doubting my own reality and maybe the entire list she sent me was true and she was justified in her actions.

Simultaneously trying to process intense feelings and realities if it was true and I'm really secretly a horrible monster, if it wasn't true and she was about to die, and old traumas getting dug out of the grave.

God I was such an emotional wreck and did not know how to process or understand anything that was happening.

This is where the AITA comes in -

I was pushing through back to back panic attacks trying to contact her and figure out what was going on. I didn't want her to die, if that's what was happening. I didn't want to be discarded and thrown away like a piece of trash, if that's what was happening. I didn't want to have 0 chance of learning & growing as a person even if this friendship wasn't salvageable due to my monstrous nature, if that's what was happening.

So I block evaded like fckn crazy. Gmail, pet game sites, discord, skype, deviantart, whatever online platform that we shared that had messaging enabled. I called her phone several times. On the 3-4th call, her mom picked up and told me that none of the above was true. That she wasn't about to die, that I wasn't being thrown away like trash, and that I wasn't a monster. She didn't agree with her daughters actions and thought it unfair to me, but ultimately it was my friend's choice. All simultaneously which just did not compute.

If the list she sent me was true, I was a shitty horrible person. If it wasn't, and she isn't about to die, then not be able to just have a calm sit-down conversation at some point about it and clear it up - if I wasn't worth even attempting to make that effort then I was being thrown away like trash. I kept trying for days afterwards to talk to her - just, anything at all. Nothing got through, she never responded to anything.

And... that was that.

I didn't have a chance to talk to her again. I didn't have a chance to clear up misunderstandings, or understand what I did actually wrong and where, or any sort of closure.

Sometimes if I'm remembering it and feeling paranoid, I'll check and see if she's alive by looking at her online profiles for any activity. Like, maybe once a year tops now. According to the petgame sites, she's still alive at least. I'm assuming she got new social media. Literally it's just a "is she alive, do I have to worry about causing her suicide" check, I don't stalk or look into anything further than that.

Anyway, AITA for how extensively & desperately I was block evading?

What are these acronyms?

[a-couple-of-notes]

I’m curious what makes you ship Rio/Alice (I also love the ship and glad more people are on board)

Oh, boy. Sorry for the wall of text that's about to hit your eyeballs, anon.

First, the main reason is that I love unexplored dynamics. It's more fun for me to write rarepairs that I have to work to justify or understand, that aren't necessarily scaffolded by popularity or a whole canon romantic storyline. Actually, I tend to avoid writing pairings that a lot of other people write or that feature heavily in canon--kind of a strange feeling of "if you don't have anything new to add, don't say it." (Which, to be clear, is not how one has to approach fandom at all. I genuinely enjoy reading my favorite tropes and premises over and over again! I like seeing ten different people gif the same moment! It's just that I, personally, like the narrative space of rarepairs.)

So for me, Rio and Alice occupy that fascinating grey area of having maybe one and a half canon conversations (super rarepair) but also being such strong characters independently that the threads of behavior and backstory are there to connect if you want. (I want.) To wit:

Rio and Alice are two people (person and entity?) whose natures fundamentally oppose each other--Alice is a very mortal protection witch whose natural instinct is to save, to be good, and Rio is the immortal Death, whose job it is to reap, to take, to be villainized. Put them together, and they'll clash in a fun way--especially since, unlike Agatha, Alice is terrible at running away or deflecting. It has the potential to be really toxic, and it has the potential of coming out the other side to actual growth and understanding. (This is what makes Alice so easy to ship/write for me, by the way--I mean, yeah, she's my blorbo, but also her sincerity and instinctive selflessness offer a great counterpoint to, like, every other character. The others, who are balls of lies and deflection and worse coping mechanisms, clarify when placed next to her.)

They also have interesting similarities: they're both bound by duty. Both forced to accept senseless tragedy. Both grieving. Both, in a way, willing to be truthful.

There are so many entry points into it from canon: Rio following Alice through her life via the curse, Alice seeking Rio (death) at some point in her life (which is not exactly canon but you can argue it by...well, Alice's whole deal pre-episode 4), Rio being jealous of Alice saving Agatha (I wrote that one), and of course Rio reaping Alice. Come on. That cheek touch. Like, we saw someone walking beside Rio into her realm, and it wasn't Agatha.

And, well, there's the Agatha of it all. The way I write Rio, you simply cannot cut Agatha out of it. It adds an extra challenge to figure out how Rio and Alice would have a relationship that would stack up in any way to Rio and Agatha's (and what that would look like). If you do it right, it gives extra meaning to Rio/Alice--it's not the destined love, but it's one they had to choose.

And finally, the two other, very shallow reasons:

I wrote a fic about these two, and I put so much of the stuff I like in there that I played myself and got interested.

Aesthetically, Death and her puppy dog girlfriend in a Hot Topic leather jacket? Fire.

[valyrfia]

I mean this the nicest way possible but have you considered the fact that you just .. hate RPF? Wich is fine, like you said it's a gray area. It's not everyone's cup of tea, actually! It's not even mine because I actually came across those trailers you said! And I instantly went "ew wtf" and I clicked not interested, and then I another showed up, and clicked not interested, and then the algorithm went ok got it, and it's been a while thankfully, that hasn't showed up. So, what I mean is, there is content in the internet that is weird, that's for sure, but there's like... Ways to avoid it? And the way that this has been a persistent subject in your blog in such a deep way makes me think that you suffer it more than anyone, wich is fine but just, don't look at it anymore? I don't know what to say honestly because, again no to be rude but youre making the MOST out of it. And it's like you're treating fandom culture like this deep dark secret when its as public as it can be and I promise you the most a person can do is feel weirded out and mute that content, and hope it doesn't show up.! But for example, I hate povs content, and that has to be the most persistent content I've seen so far on F1, full of "you're the wife/girl/sister" blah blah and I'm a lesbian, I've clicked not interested so many times I lost count and IT KEPT showing up (until i figured muting y/n, driver x reader helps) so if it keeps you more calm there are ways to avoid content you dont like!

I get where you’re going with this but also, nah. I’ve always loved RPF and will keep consuming it whenever I can. I just make a big stink out of seeing it outside of tumblr and ao3 because of algorithms and the way I was taught to interact with RPF about fifteen years ago in which….these things have to stay within their intended circles at all costs. This is back when fandom content was not cool and mainstream and unless you kept your fandom life and your actual life very separate you get bullied to hell for it. Now, I often feel like the pendulum has swung a little too far the other way and there’s such a massive influx of new people because fandom culture is trendy that fandom etiquette is starting to collapse. The treatment of RPF being one of them.

RPF differs from POV content in two ways. The first is that POV content is a little more accepted than RPF in the general consciousness, usually because it’s het but also because it’s very obvious this is a self insert fantasy which while I imagine is awkward for drivers to see, can be easily laughed off as being so obviously just a fantasy. RPF on the other hand builds off of pre-existing relationships and lore and is usually slash, which already introduces an awkward element (and you can say the men shouldn’t have toxic masculinity all you like, it’s not just them that’s the issue it’s everyone who perceives them and the content), also it’s more difficult because people DO talk about these pairings platonically. In order to not experience Lestappen on my tiktok FYP, I can’t interact with any video that mentions those two in the same breath ever because the algorithm will eventually push me ship content even if I don’t want to see it and I click not interested. This happens over and over again.

I love RPF which am just on super high alert about RPF safe spaces being breached because I know from lived experience that it doesn’t bode well. This is also just personally not the way I was taught to interact with fandom, and again I’ve seen enough shit in my time to understand why that etiquette had to be enforced.

[femmefighter]

Incoming rant - please scroll past to avoid this downer if you want.

I'm so disappointed in all of the events/fanart/servers/works etc that treat the Ahsoka series like the WolfWren or the SabEzra show. I got so heavily into Star Wars because of one character: Ahsoka. I was so freaking excited when they announced her live action series, and even more excited when, on viewing the trailer, saw that it was going to centre around multiple strong female characters! Seriously, I would jabber on to even non-Star Wars friends about how excited I was about the push of female characters in this show. And awesome female characters at that!!

I go looking for fan-created merch, be it artwork or clothing etc, and I am left so freaking wanting because everything is WolfWren. I am so starved for content that is of the main character of the show, I am at a complete loss at how the fandom has turned its back on such an incredible character for favour of a non-canon, self-proclaimed-toxic-yuri ship.

I know, I know, ship and let ship. I'm totally down with that. I love fandom art and fanfiction in general. I love me some gorgeous WolfWren art (not a SabEzra shipper, but that's a separate rant that we don't need to air, but I love their sibling relationship!). I might even love a bit of WolfWren fanfiction (very occasionally). And I have found one small, safe space on a server where I can safely indulge in my tiny little Sokabine tugboat of a ship (on Bo-Katan-centric server of all places, WTF? But damn I am so grateful for that space and those moderators). I know my ship is niche, (I don't know how, but anyway) I know I'm not going to find anyone who is as die-hard over my ship as I am. I expected that.

What I didn't expect was to find myself so lacking in Ahsoka-the-character content in fandom spaces supposedly dedicated to the Ahsoka show. Everyone loves a good ship, but the lack of other ships that could be celebrated from the show (NightDaughter, Herasoka, MonHera, ShinSoka, Morgbine, whatever!) I find is reflective of a lack of interest in the character traits of the individuals. To me, it seems like fans are more interested in an aesthetic than they are on histories, values and idiosyncrasies of the characters themselves.

Anyway, if you've got to the end of this rant, thank you for reading. Again, I don't mean to hate on such ships. I was actually just as excited as everyone else at how the actors validated WolfWren as a ship to enjoy, considering it was femslash fanfiction that made me feel less alone when I was a closeted teen nearly two decades ago. I'm just frustrated at the lack of space in the fandom for content that is different.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

Love Letter to the ToA Fandom

(Don't panic, it's a good one :D)

wrote all this just now and wanted to share...

I gotta say. I fucking LOVE the ToA fandom. As much as I love the series (which is A Lot).

And I don’t say this lightly. I’ve been in many fandom spaces (Harry Potter, Star Wars, Warriors, Percy Jackson, ect.) but this one??? THIS ONE???

THIS ONE I LOVE THE MOST

Wanna know why?

It’s because we chill. We just chill. We draw, write, and scream (happily) over the previous two things, as well as headcanons/theories. We collaborate and cheer each other on. We’re all united in our love for our #1, Lester Papadopoulos - aka, Apollo.

And when I look back at the other fandoms I’ve been in…it’s pretty obvious why ToA leaves them in the dust.

I haven’t been an active presence in the ToA fandom for even a year, yet I haven’t experienced a SINGLE ARGUMENT. which is. mindboggling.

Fandoms usually can’t go A WEEK (if they restrain themselves) without SOME KIND OF DISCOURSE.

But ToA? Nah. We say “lol, Apollo would’ve gladly followed Commodus if he’d just flirted with him a bit” and the rest of us go “LMAO HE WOULD” and that’s that.

No “BUT THEY’RE SO TOXIC!” or anything like that.

Like yeah. Sure. That's all true. But that’s what makes it so fun :) But we obviously don’t condone it. We ship them because they make us FEEL THINGS and they DRIVE US INSANE.

We're all insane and we all Do Not Care :)

I feel a lot more comfortable discussing more, I guess you could say, taboo topics in this fandom — probably because such topics are already part of the actual mythology so it's pretty hard to avoid them XD. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s seen how discourse can go over these things.

Like even over in the PJO fandom, the cousin to our own, there is STILL DISCOURSE and ridiculous arguments going on!

sniff sniff

It’s just SUCH A GREAT FANDOM SPACE SMMMFF YOU ALL ARE AMAZING